Comments on: The emerging church movement must die http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/ ... exploring religion and culture in an online world Mon, 21 May 2012 17:05:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: paul http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/comment-page-1/#comment-2942 paul Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:07:16 +0000 http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/#comment-2942 Excellent points, Matt. I agree that intellectualism aint all bad, and I am guilty of that as well (or at least I will be when the course is over). I reckon your use of the phrase niche contextualisation is spot on. Intellectualism is one thing, but to promote yourself as the intellectual for an entire movement when you only know so much of it is another. Excellent points, Matt.

I agree that intellectualism aint all bad, and I am guilty of that as well (or at least I will be when the course is over).

I reckon your use of the phrase niche contextualisation is spot on. Intellectualism is one thing, but to promote yourself as the intellectual for an entire movement when you only know so much of it is another.

]]> By: Matt Stone http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/comment-page-1/#comment-2930 Matt Stone Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:21:54 +0000 http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/#comment-2930 I suspect there is a lot to what you are saying. I feel rather uneasy when I see ec bloggers using other ec blogs as their best window to the outside world. There is no substitute for primary source research and face to face engagement with culture. On the intellectualising. Yes that is a problem and one that, alas, I have been guilty of too. But I do try and balance it out with satire, art, poetry and storytelling. I say balance because I believe there is danger in the other direction too of course - anti-intellectualism. It often rears it's head in ec discussions on this very subject. So I think more clarity on deliniating between post-intellectualism and anti-intellectualism. Beyond that, so what if some are intellectual. I think it is valid to persue niche contextualisation. I was recently reading a book descibing the the importance of the long tail (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail) in this emerging culture of ours. Having a wide audience is not the only criteria to measure success by. The critical question is whether all niches are being covered. My observation is no, so I think the real question is why is the ec locking itself into such a small subgroup of niches. Back to point (a) I think. I suspect there is a lot to what you are saying. I feel rather uneasy when I see ec bloggers using other ec blogs as their best window to the outside world. There is no substitute for primary source research and face to face engagement with culture.

On the intellectualising. Yes that is a problem and one that, alas, I have been guilty of too. But I do try and balance it out with satire, art, poetry and storytelling. I say balance because I believe there is danger in the other direction too of course – anti-intellectualism. It often rears it’s head in ec discussions on this very subject. So I think more clarity on deliniating between post-intellectualism and anti-intellectualism.

Beyond that, so what if some are intellectual. I think it is valid to persue niche contextualisation. I was recently reading a book descibing the the importance of the long tail (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail) in this emerging culture of ours. Having a wide audience is not the only criteria to measure success by. The critical question is whether all niches are being covered. My observation is no, so I think the real question is why is the ec locking itself into such a small subgroup of niches. Back to point (a) I think.

]]> By: paul http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/comment-page-1/#comment-2563 paul Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:54:17 +0000 http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/#comment-2563 Your last comment reminds me of the old EC slogan: "Once it has a name, it's no longer emerging!". Not sure what the next instalment will be, Eddie, but thanks for the encouragement. Your last comment reminds me of the old EC slogan: “Once it has a name, it’s no longer emerging!”.

Not sure what the next instalment will be, Eddie, but thanks for the encouragement.

]]> By: Eddie http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/comment-page-1/#comment-2562 Eddie Sat, 20 Jan 2007 03:28:43 +0000 http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/#comment-2562 The concept of 'movement' I think is really important here - When a lot of us started on these sorts of roads I think we saw ourselves as part of a movement - fluid, dynamic, changing, new, exploring. But perhaps now EC is a position - with prescribed parameters written in books and taught at colleges. Perhaps inevitable for any movement, that it will eventually have to stop somewhere - but that can be hard for the explorers and nomads amongst us. For me it was more exciting when we were part of something new and undiscovered - writing our own scripts, making our own worship and finding our own feet. And perhaps when that stops a lot of us lose heart and have to start finding new ground. It's interesting as when I blogged about this EC thing this week someone commented on how a good thing about being identified as EC is that you can realise you're not alone - ironically when I discover that what I'm doing isn't new and has been 'defined' before, I get tragically disappointed! :) Nicely written up Paul - look forward to the next instalment! The concept of ‘movement’ I think is really important here – When a lot of us started on these sorts of roads I think we saw ourselves as part of a movement – fluid, dynamic, changing, new, exploring. But perhaps now EC is a position – with prescribed parameters written in books and taught at colleges. Perhaps inevitable for any movement, that it will eventually have to stop somewhere – but that can be hard for the explorers and nomads amongst us.

For me it was more exciting when we were part of something new and undiscovered – writing our own scripts, making our own worship and finding our own feet. And perhaps when that stops a lot of us lose heart and have to start finding new ground.

It’s interesting as when I blogged about this EC thing this week someone commented on how a good thing about being identified as EC is that you can realise you’re not alone – ironically when I discover that what I’m doing isn’t new and has been ‘defined’ before, I get tragically disappointed! :)

Nicely written up Paul – look forward to the next instalment!

]]> By: paul http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/comment-page-1/#comment-2559 paul Sat, 20 Jan 2007 02:35:33 +0000 http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/#comment-2559 I'm finding that the bandwagon thing is being recognised by nearly all EC bloggers, even by those accused by others as driving the bandwagon. I’m finding that the bandwagon thing is being recognised by nearly all EC bloggers, even by those accused by others as driving the bandwagon.

]]> By: Kel http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/comment-page-1/#comment-2538 Kel Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:26:31 +0000 http://teusner.org/2007/01/17/the-emerging-church-movement-must-die/#comment-2538 I believe your questions/comments/observations hit the nail on the head. When I started blogging, I was part of an active emergent/missional community. Creative director of gatherings, communication coordinator for the group and it's associated community centre, and so on. However, my blog was not established to "talk EC". While I enjoyed connecting with and reading other EC bloggers, I soon found it was simply "more of the same," in a different medium. A bunch of people talking the talk, with only a few of them actually walking it. Emergent and missional became the latest trendy tags. Anyone who wanted to be someone was hustling to get on the band wagon before it hurtled past. Perhaps I'm a contrary soul, but as soon as something has become a bandwagon, that's the time I jump off! Besides, I'd rather be out doing it than sitting around talking about it. I believe your questions/comments/observations hit the nail on the head. When I started blogging, I was part of an active emergent/missional community. Creative director of gatherings, communication coordinator for the group and it’s associated community centre, and so on.

However, my blog was not established to “talk EC”. While I enjoyed connecting with and reading other EC bloggers, I soon found it was simply “more of the same,” in a different medium. A bunch of people talking the talk, with only a few of them actually walking it.

Emergent and missional became the latest trendy tags. Anyone who wanted to be someone was hustling to get on the band wagon before it hurtled past.

Perhaps I’m a contrary soul, but as soon as something has become a bandwagon, that’s the time I jump off! Besides, I’d rather be out doing it than sitting around talking about it.

]]>